Interview 11: Luca Infantino
Dublin Core
Title
Interview 11: Luca Infantino
Subject
COVID-19, COVID-19 pandemic, Hoboken, New Jersey
Description
An oral history with Luca Infantino, the owner of Alessio's, an Italian eatery opened during the height of the pandemic, regarding Hoboken's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as his personal experiences with it.
Creator
Hoboken Public Library
Publisher
Hoboken Public Library
Date
Recorded June 15, 2022
Format
Uploaded recording: .mp3
Preservation recording: .wav
Preservation recording: .wav
Language
English
Type
Oral history
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Original Format
Digital audio file
Duration
00:40:41
Transcription
BP: I am Bernadette Patino. I’m a librarian here at the Hoboken Public Library. And today’s date is June 15, 2022. And then, if you’d like to share your name and introduce yourself as well.
LI: Yes. I’m Luca Infantino. I am the owner of Alessio’s in Hoboken which is a small café, panini and pizzeria store that is on 6th Street and Park in Hoboken as well.
BP: Yeah. If you’d like to share some background information about yourself. You know, how did you end up owning a business here in Hoboken? What was your journey to get there?
LI: Sure. I was born and raised in Italy. I came in this country when I was 26 years old to work for the United Nation in Manhattan. Then, I joined an Italian private company to work as a CFO for a clothing company. But the passion for food, it was always in my blood. So, after many years working in the private sector in Manhattan with this company, I decided to follow my dreams and open my own place which occurred at the end of 2019 here in Hoboken with Alessio’s.
BP: Yeah. And now, kind of going into, like, the pandemic. If you could take yourself back in time, if you remember where you were when you heard that, like, oh, there’s this lockdown. It’s March 2020. What do you remember from that day and moment when you realized, like, oh, the world is changing now?
LI: Yes. It’s funny because I remember exactly the moment I heard about Covid. I was on vacation with my wife and my kid in Asia at the end of December where I was reading an article about this Chinese, they were calling Chinese flu. That it was that deadly. And I was telling my wife, I said, ‘What’s going on? Do you see what’s going on in China? Many people are dying with this flu.’ And we talk about December, at the end of December. So, it was very the beginning of this when I was there. And it was a phase where I… A month before, I acquired this small place in Hoboken where now is Alessio’s, invested all my money in doing construction to open this place which occurred in February 2020. So, I was very excited to open the place. And then, when I find out, we all find out in March that this flu was in reality something else, the entire world dropped on me. Because I was think that all my extra work and all my investment, and all my time spent and dreams to open my own place was going to fall in another ways. In fact, comparison to other businesses that are in town, I was a new business. Nobody knew me. So, I couldn’t count on the current customers. And being everything closed, and with zero customer, it was all – I was talking to them zero, basically. And it was very depressing and very scary. I said that because I could literally lose everything. And now, all the word that Alessio’s was then, but also would borrow money to open Alessio’s. Investments, borrowing money, and other many things that is related to that.
BP: Yes. And clearly, you’re still here. Alessio’s is still over there at Park and 6th. So, yeah. How did you navigate those challenges early on? Clearly not too many people were in the middle of opening a new business back then. So, how did you navigate all of that?
LI: I didn’t have anything to lose basically, because I already basically lost everything. So, we had a small staff. We had only – we were just opening. So, we were just starting to have a discussion to have some people with us. So, I told everybody, listen, guys. Let’s see what’s going on. Let’s stay home for now and let’s see what we can do. I opened the store every day because luckily, being an essential business, I could be open. I was going to stay home anyway. But I decided to go every day in the store myself. I should remember while it was a very scary time what you were risking every day to get Covid and go home and bring Covid to your kids. So, it was also very emotionally scary. Going to work to make 20 dollars’ worth of sales and bring Covid home. But to me, it was a chan- not even a chance. It was the only things to do. Be open and trying to survive. And for the past two months, I had two customers basically that were coming every day to have the coffee and to have the lunch. And then I was closing by 2:00 because, you know, I didn’t want to be open all day. But what, you know, I had just gotten some pastry. So, I didn’t have anybody in the kitchen. Just a way to show to the community that Alessio’s will also open. And if you wanted to come by just to get a coffee, just to exchange some word or some and chat, that’s basically what we did. Just two per customer a day. They see my customers in there. And they also friend of us as community, of Alessio’s, because we remember very well in the beginnings where we were all scared and standing sometimes hours to get in the store just talking because there was nothing that’s going on basically.
BP: Yeah. So, it sounds like you’re able to, like, even in those early days, build a community of people, even if it’s a mom who’s in the workforce. But then, also the few people that started coming in. So, how did things, kind of, change and develop, you know, as, you know, 2020 rolled out and then 2021 when the vaccines came out. How did things change at Alessio’s as the pandemic progressed?
LI: Yeah. So, we literally build the community around us during the first months of Covid. Again, the two customers began three customers, four customers, five customers, six customers. Still a very, a very small cluster. And basically, our form of other passing, it was a word of mouth where, you know, the friend of a friend, or neighbor started to come also to us and started to be part of this community. One day, I was going to the bank to borrow more money to pay rent and I find my pizza guy that was going to the bank as well to do other things. And said, and we were talking. He said, what’s going on? How are you? That, yes, look, I’m still home. You know, I don’t know what to do. And I told him, listen, I really cannot pay you. But do we want to do something together? You can help me just whatever you want. Just even for a couple hours. And we start to do something. Because if we never start, we can never build it. So, he say yes. Look, I’m going to help you. I’m going to come. Don’t worry about money. The money will come later. Don’t worry. So, this was beginning of May. So, we talk about two months after the start pandemic. We were still in the full pandemic. So… And he actually came to start helping me with some food, with pizza. It’s actually, he’s still my main pizza person in the store. But then, if you come to Alessio’s, you see. And it’s basically for a couple months, basically worked for free. We were making 500 dollar a week. We were sharing that. 250 to you, 250 to me. [Laughs] No counting costs. So, yeah. It was a way to start. And we started to get more busy. We started to stay. That’s not the time to call everybody else because if we never start, there is no other solution. We cannot continue like this in the terminal. So, we called the other two people, one in the kitchen, and one for the front staff to help us. And that’s all that we did. We added the other two people. Alessio’s is a small store. But it’s a complicated operation. Front staff, pizza, and kitchen. So, you need always at least three people. And this is also challenging for cost control because if you need always three people, between rent and personal costs, that’s the biggest part of the cost in the profit and loss. So, we started to take in consideration spending more in personnel and start to build business. And that’s basically what happened. Since May, little by little, little by little, we started to see increase of sales every month with big percentage of increase. Of course, if you start from very low, then the percentage increases very high. [Laughs] But for us, it was also the opportunity to start from zero basically. And being very slow, very, very… You know, in an environment like this, there’s also the opportunity to fix mistakes and issues. And maybe the menu, or maybe something that you see doesn’t work very well. And this actually was one of the good things that Covid brought us for a new business. Everybody makes mistake at the beginning, especially on the menu. We had the opportunity to fix the mistakes when we had no customers basically. So, it was easier to fix a few mistakes in the menu, in the salads and everything that. So, that was also an opportunity for us to do better because we have time to that.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Yes. And then when the vaccines came out, did things get easier for you in the store in terms of, like, more customers and everything like that? Did that change at all?
LI: Yes.
BP: Going into 2021 and—
LI: So, the key for customer – and even for us because all of us are family. I’m very glad it was the staff that they all family oriented. And nobody drinks. That’s very rare in this industry. We all have family at home. And we were all conscious and scared about getting the virus. Also, because if you get the virus, for two weeks, you cannot work. You cannot make money. So, the vaccines really helped getting the confidence from our customer to get in the store. I remember, there were customers, they would not come in the store because they were scared to get Covid. But luckily, little by little, all of us that were more informed about the virus, I remember the beginning, people were still thinking that the virus was sitting on sofas for 72 hours. So, you were scared to go in the store maybe at all. It wasn’t true. But at the beginning, everybody was scared. So, the vaccine – now, I don’t remember exactly the month when the vaccine came.
BP: Spring 2021 or—
LI: Okay. Spring 2021. Yes. Now I remember. I was one of the first getting the vaccine. Besides the fact I was an essential business, I had also a heart issue. It’s very minor. But I was lucky enough to get in that category where I could get a vaccine first. I was waiting hours at the drive-in to get a vaccine. But that helped really a lot because people were getting more confident to come in the store. To sale until it’s at the point because a big portion of my business is the school environment. We are surrounded here as you well know by three-four schools. So, the schools, I believe, they were not open, even with vaccine, they were not open. So, I still didn’t have the – I would call the school business - that is parents, teachers, kids. But again, I was getting more and more sales because being skills low that were with our business, we can make things in the right way. Let’s say that.
BP: Absolutely. And then, you mentioned your family. So, a few questions just about yourself. How was your family’s life impacted by the pandemic?
LI: Okay. So, my family is impacted a lot by the pandemic because me and my wife are very conscious. We still don’t go up – I own the restaurant business. We still don’t go out to any public place with my kids because, of course, they are not vaccinated yet.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
LI: So, Covid has really, really impacted us. We didn’t see any family. Most of my family is in Italy anyway. So, we were traveling a lot. Let’s say every three-four months to see my family in Italy. That couldn’t happen for two years. I saw my family again after two years. We went December ’21. And last time I was there was in December ’19. So, yes, two full years that I didn’t see any of my mom, my dad, my sister, all my other family. But still, even for my wife’s family that lives 40 minutes from here, that are in sixties, we didn’t see them at least for six months, I think. I believe we saw them first time in June/July. So, about six months. And, of course, if you remember, wear mask, very distance. So, yes. Still in that condition. Luckily, we didn’t suffer any loss. We were lucky enough to not suffer any loss. But give you an example, my wife’s grandmother, she died last year. She was 98. And my wife, since the pandemic started, she didn’t see her because of that. So, it was very sad for my wife to not be able to see her grandmother alive. So. And I [unintelligible 00:16:31]. We were going there every month. You know, then just to say, look. And that’s all.
BP: Yeah. The social distancing, yeah, made it so hard for, like, gatherings with friends and family and everything. But even, you know, if your family was still in quarantine, say, in the beginning of the pandemic, how were, like, holidays celebrated at home? Did you get to still do even just celebrations in the house? Like, birthdays, or holidays, and things like that?
LI: Yeah. That’s very, very beautiful to hear because now we talk about two years now. So, we are talking – and now, I remember things. Easter, it’s a big Catholic – I’m Catholic. So, I’m Christian. So, it actually is the biggest Christian holiday, Easter. More than Christmas. We were doing a dinner at home, just us, with three computers. And FaceTiming my sister-in-law in Colorado, my in-laws that are in Jersey, and my family in Italy. So, we were together, but on FaceTime. So, we share that. That was nice. And then, every other we go for Christmas in Italy. We, of course, couldn’t go in December 2020. So, we basically stayed home and spent Christmas at home with just my in-laws. That I remember, if I remember were in the end of 2020 we were still in a phase where the first wave didn’t come yet. I believe it was wider where we were celebrated Christmas. And then, again, January it started all over.
BP: Yes. And, of course, you were very busy with work. You were very busy at home. But did you have any other unique experiences that you might want to share during the pandemic whether it’s things that you tend to do in your free time or anything like that?
LI: So, the pandemic changed a little of my time because my goal for Alessio’s was, it was always going to be my passion and my other baby. Because I’m working for – I have a full-time job for a corporation. So, for me, Alessio’s was always going to be my… Again, my baby. Having a two staff, a manager that was taking care of the store, I was going there maybe a couple hours a day just to check it out. Spend some weekends. I couldn’t do that anymore. Luckily, my company was understandable enough that they know I own a business. So, they were willing to keep me remote because of that. Also, I’m in a position where I’m very thankful for what I’m doing. I can do any time of the day. But literally, still now, I have zero day off because I still have to do my 40 hours work for my company, plus doing Alessio’s. I’m still not able to afford a full-full staff. Because, yes, we’re doing well. But seems like that. But it’s very challenging to… At the end of the month, costs are outrageous. You know, it still has more margin than that. And I really cannot still afford to have a full team. Otherwise, you know, it’s a losing business. So, that means that the sacrifice I’m making right now, it’s really having my life around these two jobs and literally have zero day off and find time. My compromise at the 2:00, no matter what, I’m home. If something come up, I close the store. I don’t mind. But at 2:00, I’m home. Means that the rest of the day, it’s family time for me. And, yes, I would prefer to have a full day off and stay home, but it’s very, very, very difficult to do that in this business. Because even if you’re home, or you open, there’s always something going on and needing [unintelligible 00:21:05].
BP: Yeah. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot. You know, opening a business in the midst of this, like, world-changing pandemic, you know, haven’t had a day off. All of that. So, how did your view of yourself and of the world change during these last two-two-and-a-half years?
LI: You really see what is important in your life that is… The people around you, the relationship, the family values because at the end of the day, that’s the only thing that matter. And you see it. One day, everything can manage and so many businesses were shut down and closed for forever because of this. Same thing for family that got destroyed because of the losses and the other related health considers that some people still have it. It really give us a new opportunity to understand what is important in our life. What’s the meaning of our life? Unfortunately, with the Covid and the pandemic fading, maybe the human beings, they will go back to how they were. But I still see something good. Give you an example. Until the pandemic, I didn’t know anybody in my neighborhood. Was everybody was leaving the house in the morning, coming back at night. No time to socialize with your neighbor. Right now, we know everybody in our neighborhood. And this is something priceless. You know, and you, you know, the pandemic draws something good. The central community.
BP: Yeah. Everyone realizes the value of it after getting quarantined for so long. And, yeah. So, of course, you know, there is so many unprecedented changes during the pandemic, even early on, like, you know, people having a hard time getting, like, their, like, personal protective equipment, or even toilet paper, things like that. And this especially impacted businesses, like, where supply chains globally were also impacted. So, for you, over at Alessio’s, did you, or even, you know, in your home, did you experience any problems getting supplies, issues with supply chains and things like that? Or prices of goods and things like that?
LI: This is one of the biggest issue and problems that the pandemic brought. Lack of staffing, lack of supplies, destruction of the supply chain that brought pricing… How do you say it? Rocket.
BP: Skyrocket.
LI: Skyrocket. That’s the correct word. And really stressful because every day was missing something. You have a menu that, okay, your salads, there is no eggs for 20 days. What are you going to do? Same thing with the staff. I remember one day, not one day, most of the month, I couldn’t find any plastic cups for my coffee. I literally was going to every shop around to find a sleeve of a cups that was costing me more than the coffee that I was selling. It was not solution because you have the coffee on the menu. And this is still happening. Every day it’s missing stuff. And this, of course, is bringing higher prices for businesses that is translating to less margin. If you are much selling much more now and making off of the money. And this is, I’m sure, for every business. You really working a very low margin, especially goes all to the workers. They could pay more, well, they don’t have to work. Everything changed in the working environment for everybody. But especially for the industry, I believe. For food industries is changed. It’s really, it’s destructive change. It’s a change for bad, not for good.
BP: Yeah. It’s very difficult. And, yeah. What precautions were taken generally in the workplace, or even at home in order to keep, you know, family and keep, you know, your customers, your workers safe? Generally, what precautions did you decide to take? And what was it like making those types of decisions?
LI: We were taking the precaution that it was a both required and both recommended by the government and the CDC. So, some distancing, nobody in the store at the beginning. No seating. No consumption of food in the store. Of course, masks. Always sanitize ourself for everything you are doing with the personal, how do you say, relations or something that. So, the basic precaution you were doing, very stressful. It was not only for – very stressful for two reason. One, you are stressed to this to this to get Covid. Second, stress for the customer. What does it thing, we are doing something right, something…? You know, that’s… [laughs] But it was the world we were living on. So, there was not a lot of things to do.
BP: Of course. And did you feel anything in your life, sort of, prepared you for all the challenges that you face during the pandemic? Any experience, like, that would give you some tools to try to navigate these difficult times?
LI: I come from a very, a very, I don’t say very poor family, but very humble family. I start there in my life with zero. I had to go to work. Again, I was born and raised in Italy where it’s a good place for vacation, but life is very tough. That’s why people immigrate. So, I started to work at 10 years old. In the meantime, I was working full-time paying my study. And in the meantime, I was getting my MBA with the money I was making. So basically, I was studying at night and working during the day. And then, I was brave enough to try this adventure and go live and work to a different country in the other side of the world with a total different culture and language that is not your first language. I’m saying all of this because I believe all of this in my life prepared me for the pandemic. I’m not scared of anything anymore in my life. The only things I’m scared, one day, you know, the only things that scares me is my family, you know. Is my family. If my family is safe and is next to me, I don’t need anything else.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Yes. And you mentioned that you were mostly here in New Jersey, you know, during the pandemic. You didn’t get to travel or see family back home. You mentioned you have family back in Italy. So, I’m sure you’ve heard a lot about their experiences there too. I’m wondering, how was their experience of the pandemic different in any way than what you experienced here in the United States in New Jersey?
LI: Very different. Actually, it was very much worse. Because if you recall, Italy was one of the first countries that got hit, and one of the worst for many reasons; all the population, different density, different treatment. My family was in real lockdown. We never been in real lockdown. But my family was in real lock, and the entire country was in real lockdown for more than two months. They couldn’t go out of the house. And this was very, very, very scary. Because being in the other part of the world, you see what’s going on here. But you don’t live the day-by-day state as they live over there. They were in lockdown for two-three months, I think. Then they open up a little bit. And then, after a couple of months more, they got hit again. So, until the second, I believe until last January where there came another wave, Italy and other countries, they were still in a situation where they were on and off on a full lockdown basically. And in comparison, to this country, the condition over there, they are still very more strict than we are here.
BP: Yes. And, you know, you were here in Hoboken running your store for a lot of that time. Do you feel like there was any particular uniqueness to experiencing the pandemic, you know, or seeing how it happened here in Hoboken compared to, maybe, your family, or compared to other people? Do you think there was anything unique particular about the pandemic here in Hoboken in your experience?
LI: Not in particular that I recall. But I would say that Hoboken in particular [unintelligible 00:31:06] was very – the sense of community of this town is very high. It’s very big [unintelligible 00:31:14]. So, you can tell that all around, from the city officials, from the neighborhood. So, this experience, I believe, is bigger than somebody else. Somewhere else resident. I’m not sure what’s going on in the middle of Wisconsin or, you know.
BP: Yes. And do you have any other friends or family that also owned businesses themselves? And was your experience different at all from them and the challenges that you faced opening your own business during this time?
LI: My brother-in-law has a business in Italy that for almost couple of years it was closed. It was also the kind of business, it was like an entertaining business where he had a similar experience to mine. He opened up this place a couple of months before Covid hit in the sports industry. You know, like… So, that one was one of the worst business to do during Covid because all the events, they were done. And was very challenging for him as well. For us, even [unintelligible 00:32:28] his own construction company. But then it was a little bit different because construction was still something that was happening. And I know many, I have many clients that, not friends that before I just knew them that had businesses in the food industry as well in New York City, all over the country. They were really, really challenging for them as well.
BP: Absolutely. And, like, you know, so many changes happened during this time. Are there any changes in your life or in your work that you think you’ll be keeping now, like, even after the pandemic is over?
LI: I believe the flexible and remote, let’s say, working from home kind of a situation, it’s something new that the pandemic brought. And I really hoping and willing to continue this because it really, it showed us and provided to the companies that you can do the same amount of work or more sometimes. Not in a nine to five in-office situations. So, all for this, we’ll continue about that. I’m lucky enough that I have an understandable company that is still accepting this. I know it’s not the case for many of the companies. But this is something that I’m really trying to proceed and keep it. And my goal is really to focus on growing Alessio’s in a different kind of way. Maybe franchising the place. Maybe open a different location under my extended management. Maybe open a sister business, you know. [unintelligible 00:34:42] So, we don’t know. [Laughs]
BP: The possibilities are endless.
LI: Yes.
BP: Yes. And how has the pandemic changed your view about Hoboken, or because you discovered anything new about the city, about the community here during, you know, the last two years. And, you know, running your store here. Yeah. If you’d like to share on that.
LI: I got to know Hoboken much more. Because especially in this town, in the city, there is also a big support of other businesses. So, when times get tough, you know, you [unintelligible 00:35:31]. And like us, many of the business, they [unintelligible 00:35:34]. So, you created some type of legacy with them. I have many customer that they have businesses here. And become their customer. So, that what this city was unique in this way. One of my friend, he’s running the business of a candle store. Other restaurant and bar. Other things. We went through the same. So, we know what was it like, how is it. So, it’s like, we understand each other even without talking to each other about that. That’s something that we do. So, it’s something my family do.
BP: Yes. And do you have any predictions for the future of Hoboken, whether that’s, you know, in the food and service industry or the city in general? Do you have any predictions for the, sort of, post-pandemic world that we’re going to be in?
LI: For Hoboken in particular?
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
LI: So, Hoboken is already called the Sixth Borough of New York. The officials, they are really doing a good job to have Hoboken be more exposed to the world. I believe it’s a tremendous opportunity to be even better than Brooklyn and Queens because there is amazing views, good quality of life. Yeah. It is most shady, but it’s very low crime. What can be done by their advance? Something that, host some activities that can bring more customers. Not more customer, more people. Not only residents, but visitors from all over New Jersey and New York. Something and now is suffering a little bit, but the issue, there is the opportunity for much more. And because the waterfront of Hoboken is beautiful. Good food. Good… It’s busy everything here.
BP: Yes. And, you know, years from now, you know, when, you know, your child is all grown up, I’m sure you’ll be telling stories to them about what it was like during this time during the pandemic. What would you tell them? What would you want future generations to know about what we’ve experienced over the last two and a half years?
LI: What we do is a bit of a project because it’s basically what the future generation should hear and learn because we don’t know. Maybe in 50 years from now something like that, it will happen again. And the testimony of what happened – and this is, I believe, is valid for everything. I remember, my grandfather talking about the Second World War, that he was a prisoner in Albania. You know, communicating your feeling, what happened, it’s a way to teach further generation that it will come, that will… If they know from somebody that experience that, it’s worth their time hear from the news. [Laughs]
BP: Absolutely. And then, is there anything else that you would like to mention, whether about Hoboken or the pandemic in general in relation to your personal experience, or your experience opening up a business in this really unprecedented global time?
LI: I think we covered almost everything.
BP: Okay.
LI: And like I said, I’m very thankful for the community that I was able to be part here in Hoboken because at the end of the day, it’s really what matters. And I do the same. I go somewhere what I feel like, you know, I’m part of that environment. Something many people teach to from big corporation business to small businesses. And being, for example, in the food industry, I will say there were many people that were going to Starbucks. Now, they [unintelligible 00:40:11]. So now, they created this, sort of, change of behavior toward the community.
BP: Excellent. So, that’s the end of the interview. Thank you so much, Luca, for participating. We really appreciate having your perspective being part of a local history here in Hoboken.
LI: Thank you for inviting me in this and be able to share my experience. Thank you.
BP: Yeah, absolutely.
[End of audio]
LI: Yes. I’m Luca Infantino. I am the owner of Alessio’s in Hoboken which is a small café, panini and pizzeria store that is on 6th Street and Park in Hoboken as well.
BP: Yeah. If you’d like to share some background information about yourself. You know, how did you end up owning a business here in Hoboken? What was your journey to get there?
LI: Sure. I was born and raised in Italy. I came in this country when I was 26 years old to work for the United Nation in Manhattan. Then, I joined an Italian private company to work as a CFO for a clothing company. But the passion for food, it was always in my blood. So, after many years working in the private sector in Manhattan with this company, I decided to follow my dreams and open my own place which occurred at the end of 2019 here in Hoboken with Alessio’s.
BP: Yeah. And now, kind of going into, like, the pandemic. If you could take yourself back in time, if you remember where you were when you heard that, like, oh, there’s this lockdown. It’s March 2020. What do you remember from that day and moment when you realized, like, oh, the world is changing now?
LI: Yes. It’s funny because I remember exactly the moment I heard about Covid. I was on vacation with my wife and my kid in Asia at the end of December where I was reading an article about this Chinese, they were calling Chinese flu. That it was that deadly. And I was telling my wife, I said, ‘What’s going on? Do you see what’s going on in China? Many people are dying with this flu.’ And we talk about December, at the end of December. So, it was very the beginning of this when I was there. And it was a phase where I… A month before, I acquired this small place in Hoboken where now is Alessio’s, invested all my money in doing construction to open this place which occurred in February 2020. So, I was very excited to open the place. And then, when I find out, we all find out in March that this flu was in reality something else, the entire world dropped on me. Because I was think that all my extra work and all my investment, and all my time spent and dreams to open my own place was going to fall in another ways. In fact, comparison to other businesses that are in town, I was a new business. Nobody knew me. So, I couldn’t count on the current customers. And being everything closed, and with zero customer, it was all – I was talking to them zero, basically. And it was very depressing and very scary. I said that because I could literally lose everything. And now, all the word that Alessio’s was then, but also would borrow money to open Alessio’s. Investments, borrowing money, and other many things that is related to that.
BP: Yes. And clearly, you’re still here. Alessio’s is still over there at Park and 6th. So, yeah. How did you navigate those challenges early on? Clearly not too many people were in the middle of opening a new business back then. So, how did you navigate all of that?
LI: I didn’t have anything to lose basically, because I already basically lost everything. So, we had a small staff. We had only – we were just opening. So, we were just starting to have a discussion to have some people with us. So, I told everybody, listen, guys. Let’s see what’s going on. Let’s stay home for now and let’s see what we can do. I opened the store every day because luckily, being an essential business, I could be open. I was going to stay home anyway. But I decided to go every day in the store myself. I should remember while it was a very scary time what you were risking every day to get Covid and go home and bring Covid to your kids. So, it was also very emotionally scary. Going to work to make 20 dollars’ worth of sales and bring Covid home. But to me, it was a chan- not even a chance. It was the only things to do. Be open and trying to survive. And for the past two months, I had two customers basically that were coming every day to have the coffee and to have the lunch. And then I was closing by 2:00 because, you know, I didn’t want to be open all day. But what, you know, I had just gotten some pastry. So, I didn’t have anybody in the kitchen. Just a way to show to the community that Alessio’s will also open. And if you wanted to come by just to get a coffee, just to exchange some word or some and chat, that’s basically what we did. Just two per customer a day. They see my customers in there. And they also friend of us as community, of Alessio’s, because we remember very well in the beginnings where we were all scared and standing sometimes hours to get in the store just talking because there was nothing that’s going on basically.
BP: Yeah. So, it sounds like you’re able to, like, even in those early days, build a community of people, even if it’s a mom who’s in the workforce. But then, also the few people that started coming in. So, how did things, kind of, change and develop, you know, as, you know, 2020 rolled out and then 2021 when the vaccines came out. How did things change at Alessio’s as the pandemic progressed?
LI: Yeah. So, we literally build the community around us during the first months of Covid. Again, the two customers began three customers, four customers, five customers, six customers. Still a very, a very small cluster. And basically, our form of other passing, it was a word of mouth where, you know, the friend of a friend, or neighbor started to come also to us and started to be part of this community. One day, I was going to the bank to borrow more money to pay rent and I find my pizza guy that was going to the bank as well to do other things. And said, and we were talking. He said, what’s going on? How are you? That, yes, look, I’m still home. You know, I don’t know what to do. And I told him, listen, I really cannot pay you. But do we want to do something together? You can help me just whatever you want. Just even for a couple hours. And we start to do something. Because if we never start, we can never build it. So, he say yes. Look, I’m going to help you. I’m going to come. Don’t worry about money. The money will come later. Don’t worry. So, this was beginning of May. So, we talk about two months after the start pandemic. We were still in the full pandemic. So… And he actually came to start helping me with some food, with pizza. It’s actually, he’s still my main pizza person in the store. But then, if you come to Alessio’s, you see. And it’s basically for a couple months, basically worked for free. We were making 500 dollar a week. We were sharing that. 250 to you, 250 to me. [Laughs] No counting costs. So, yeah. It was a way to start. And we started to get more busy. We started to stay. That’s not the time to call everybody else because if we never start, there is no other solution. We cannot continue like this in the terminal. So, we called the other two people, one in the kitchen, and one for the front staff to help us. And that’s all that we did. We added the other two people. Alessio’s is a small store. But it’s a complicated operation. Front staff, pizza, and kitchen. So, you need always at least three people. And this is also challenging for cost control because if you need always three people, between rent and personal costs, that’s the biggest part of the cost in the profit and loss. So, we started to take in consideration spending more in personnel and start to build business. And that’s basically what happened. Since May, little by little, little by little, we started to see increase of sales every month with big percentage of increase. Of course, if you start from very low, then the percentage increases very high. [Laughs] But for us, it was also the opportunity to start from zero basically. And being very slow, very, very… You know, in an environment like this, there’s also the opportunity to fix mistakes and issues. And maybe the menu, or maybe something that you see doesn’t work very well. And this actually was one of the good things that Covid brought us for a new business. Everybody makes mistake at the beginning, especially on the menu. We had the opportunity to fix the mistakes when we had no customers basically. So, it was easier to fix a few mistakes in the menu, in the salads and everything that. So, that was also an opportunity for us to do better because we have time to that.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Yes. And then when the vaccines came out, did things get easier for you in the store in terms of, like, more customers and everything like that? Did that change at all?
LI: Yes.
BP: Going into 2021 and—
LI: So, the key for customer – and even for us because all of us are family. I’m very glad it was the staff that they all family oriented. And nobody drinks. That’s very rare in this industry. We all have family at home. And we were all conscious and scared about getting the virus. Also, because if you get the virus, for two weeks, you cannot work. You cannot make money. So, the vaccines really helped getting the confidence from our customer to get in the store. I remember, there were customers, they would not come in the store because they were scared to get Covid. But luckily, little by little, all of us that were more informed about the virus, I remember the beginning, people were still thinking that the virus was sitting on sofas for 72 hours. So, you were scared to go in the store maybe at all. It wasn’t true. But at the beginning, everybody was scared. So, the vaccine – now, I don’t remember exactly the month when the vaccine came.
BP: Spring 2021 or—
LI: Okay. Spring 2021. Yes. Now I remember. I was one of the first getting the vaccine. Besides the fact I was an essential business, I had also a heart issue. It’s very minor. But I was lucky enough to get in that category where I could get a vaccine first. I was waiting hours at the drive-in to get a vaccine. But that helped really a lot because people were getting more confident to come in the store. To sale until it’s at the point because a big portion of my business is the school environment. We are surrounded here as you well know by three-four schools. So, the schools, I believe, they were not open, even with vaccine, they were not open. So, I still didn’t have the – I would call the school business - that is parents, teachers, kids. But again, I was getting more and more sales because being skills low that were with our business, we can make things in the right way. Let’s say that.
BP: Absolutely. And then, you mentioned your family. So, a few questions just about yourself. How was your family’s life impacted by the pandemic?
LI: Okay. So, my family is impacted a lot by the pandemic because me and my wife are very conscious. We still don’t go up – I own the restaurant business. We still don’t go out to any public place with my kids because, of course, they are not vaccinated yet.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
LI: So, Covid has really, really impacted us. We didn’t see any family. Most of my family is in Italy anyway. So, we were traveling a lot. Let’s say every three-four months to see my family in Italy. That couldn’t happen for two years. I saw my family again after two years. We went December ’21. And last time I was there was in December ’19. So, yes, two full years that I didn’t see any of my mom, my dad, my sister, all my other family. But still, even for my wife’s family that lives 40 minutes from here, that are in sixties, we didn’t see them at least for six months, I think. I believe we saw them first time in June/July. So, about six months. And, of course, if you remember, wear mask, very distance. So, yes. Still in that condition. Luckily, we didn’t suffer any loss. We were lucky enough to not suffer any loss. But give you an example, my wife’s grandmother, she died last year. She was 98. And my wife, since the pandemic started, she didn’t see her because of that. So, it was very sad for my wife to not be able to see her grandmother alive. So. And I [unintelligible 00:16:31]. We were going there every month. You know, then just to say, look. And that’s all.
BP: Yeah. The social distancing, yeah, made it so hard for, like, gatherings with friends and family and everything. But even, you know, if your family was still in quarantine, say, in the beginning of the pandemic, how were, like, holidays celebrated at home? Did you get to still do even just celebrations in the house? Like, birthdays, or holidays, and things like that?
LI: Yeah. That’s very, very beautiful to hear because now we talk about two years now. So, we are talking – and now, I remember things. Easter, it’s a big Catholic – I’m Catholic. So, I’m Christian. So, it actually is the biggest Christian holiday, Easter. More than Christmas. We were doing a dinner at home, just us, with three computers. And FaceTiming my sister-in-law in Colorado, my in-laws that are in Jersey, and my family in Italy. So, we were together, but on FaceTime. So, we share that. That was nice. And then, every other we go for Christmas in Italy. We, of course, couldn’t go in December 2020. So, we basically stayed home and spent Christmas at home with just my in-laws. That I remember, if I remember were in the end of 2020 we were still in a phase where the first wave didn’t come yet. I believe it was wider where we were celebrated Christmas. And then, again, January it started all over.
BP: Yes. And, of course, you were very busy with work. You were very busy at home. But did you have any other unique experiences that you might want to share during the pandemic whether it’s things that you tend to do in your free time or anything like that?
LI: So, the pandemic changed a little of my time because my goal for Alessio’s was, it was always going to be my passion and my other baby. Because I’m working for – I have a full-time job for a corporation. So, for me, Alessio’s was always going to be my… Again, my baby. Having a two staff, a manager that was taking care of the store, I was going there maybe a couple hours a day just to check it out. Spend some weekends. I couldn’t do that anymore. Luckily, my company was understandable enough that they know I own a business. So, they were willing to keep me remote because of that. Also, I’m in a position where I’m very thankful for what I’m doing. I can do any time of the day. But literally, still now, I have zero day off because I still have to do my 40 hours work for my company, plus doing Alessio’s. I’m still not able to afford a full-full staff. Because, yes, we’re doing well. But seems like that. But it’s very challenging to… At the end of the month, costs are outrageous. You know, it still has more margin than that. And I really cannot still afford to have a full team. Otherwise, you know, it’s a losing business. So, that means that the sacrifice I’m making right now, it’s really having my life around these two jobs and literally have zero day off and find time. My compromise at the 2:00, no matter what, I’m home. If something come up, I close the store. I don’t mind. But at 2:00, I’m home. Means that the rest of the day, it’s family time for me. And, yes, I would prefer to have a full day off and stay home, but it’s very, very, very difficult to do that in this business. Because even if you’re home, or you open, there’s always something going on and needing [unintelligible 00:21:05].
BP: Yeah. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot. You know, opening a business in the midst of this, like, world-changing pandemic, you know, haven’t had a day off. All of that. So, how did your view of yourself and of the world change during these last two-two-and-a-half years?
LI: You really see what is important in your life that is… The people around you, the relationship, the family values because at the end of the day, that’s the only thing that matter. And you see it. One day, everything can manage and so many businesses were shut down and closed for forever because of this. Same thing for family that got destroyed because of the losses and the other related health considers that some people still have it. It really give us a new opportunity to understand what is important in our life. What’s the meaning of our life? Unfortunately, with the Covid and the pandemic fading, maybe the human beings, they will go back to how they were. But I still see something good. Give you an example. Until the pandemic, I didn’t know anybody in my neighborhood. Was everybody was leaving the house in the morning, coming back at night. No time to socialize with your neighbor. Right now, we know everybody in our neighborhood. And this is something priceless. You know, and you, you know, the pandemic draws something good. The central community.
BP: Yeah. Everyone realizes the value of it after getting quarantined for so long. And, yeah. So, of course, you know, there is so many unprecedented changes during the pandemic, even early on, like, you know, people having a hard time getting, like, their, like, personal protective equipment, or even toilet paper, things like that. And this especially impacted businesses, like, where supply chains globally were also impacted. So, for you, over at Alessio’s, did you, or even, you know, in your home, did you experience any problems getting supplies, issues with supply chains and things like that? Or prices of goods and things like that?
LI: This is one of the biggest issue and problems that the pandemic brought. Lack of staffing, lack of supplies, destruction of the supply chain that brought pricing… How do you say it? Rocket.
BP: Skyrocket.
LI: Skyrocket. That’s the correct word. And really stressful because every day was missing something. You have a menu that, okay, your salads, there is no eggs for 20 days. What are you going to do? Same thing with the staff. I remember one day, not one day, most of the month, I couldn’t find any plastic cups for my coffee. I literally was going to every shop around to find a sleeve of a cups that was costing me more than the coffee that I was selling. It was not solution because you have the coffee on the menu. And this is still happening. Every day it’s missing stuff. And this, of course, is bringing higher prices for businesses that is translating to less margin. If you are much selling much more now and making off of the money. And this is, I’m sure, for every business. You really working a very low margin, especially goes all to the workers. They could pay more, well, they don’t have to work. Everything changed in the working environment for everybody. But especially for the industry, I believe. For food industries is changed. It’s really, it’s destructive change. It’s a change for bad, not for good.
BP: Yeah. It’s very difficult. And, yeah. What precautions were taken generally in the workplace, or even at home in order to keep, you know, family and keep, you know, your customers, your workers safe? Generally, what precautions did you decide to take? And what was it like making those types of decisions?
LI: We were taking the precaution that it was a both required and both recommended by the government and the CDC. So, some distancing, nobody in the store at the beginning. No seating. No consumption of food in the store. Of course, masks. Always sanitize ourself for everything you are doing with the personal, how do you say, relations or something that. So, the basic precaution you were doing, very stressful. It was not only for – very stressful for two reason. One, you are stressed to this to this to get Covid. Second, stress for the customer. What does it thing, we are doing something right, something…? You know, that’s… [laughs] But it was the world we were living on. So, there was not a lot of things to do.
BP: Of course. And did you feel anything in your life, sort of, prepared you for all the challenges that you face during the pandemic? Any experience, like, that would give you some tools to try to navigate these difficult times?
LI: I come from a very, a very, I don’t say very poor family, but very humble family. I start there in my life with zero. I had to go to work. Again, I was born and raised in Italy where it’s a good place for vacation, but life is very tough. That’s why people immigrate. So, I started to work at 10 years old. In the meantime, I was working full-time paying my study. And in the meantime, I was getting my MBA with the money I was making. So basically, I was studying at night and working during the day. And then, I was brave enough to try this adventure and go live and work to a different country in the other side of the world with a total different culture and language that is not your first language. I’m saying all of this because I believe all of this in my life prepared me for the pandemic. I’m not scared of anything anymore in my life. The only things I’m scared, one day, you know, the only things that scares me is my family, you know. Is my family. If my family is safe and is next to me, I don’t need anything else.
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Yes. And you mentioned that you were mostly here in New Jersey, you know, during the pandemic. You didn’t get to travel or see family back home. You mentioned you have family back in Italy. So, I’m sure you’ve heard a lot about their experiences there too. I’m wondering, how was their experience of the pandemic different in any way than what you experienced here in the United States in New Jersey?
LI: Very different. Actually, it was very much worse. Because if you recall, Italy was one of the first countries that got hit, and one of the worst for many reasons; all the population, different density, different treatment. My family was in real lockdown. We never been in real lockdown. But my family was in real lock, and the entire country was in real lockdown for more than two months. They couldn’t go out of the house. And this was very, very, very scary. Because being in the other part of the world, you see what’s going on here. But you don’t live the day-by-day state as they live over there. They were in lockdown for two-three months, I think. Then they open up a little bit. And then, after a couple of months more, they got hit again. So, until the second, I believe until last January where there came another wave, Italy and other countries, they were still in a situation where they were on and off on a full lockdown basically. And in comparison, to this country, the condition over there, they are still very more strict than we are here.
BP: Yes. And, you know, you were here in Hoboken running your store for a lot of that time. Do you feel like there was any particular uniqueness to experiencing the pandemic, you know, or seeing how it happened here in Hoboken compared to, maybe, your family, or compared to other people? Do you think there was anything unique particular about the pandemic here in Hoboken in your experience?
LI: Not in particular that I recall. But I would say that Hoboken in particular [unintelligible 00:31:06] was very – the sense of community of this town is very high. It’s very big [unintelligible 00:31:14]. So, you can tell that all around, from the city officials, from the neighborhood. So, this experience, I believe, is bigger than somebody else. Somewhere else resident. I’m not sure what’s going on in the middle of Wisconsin or, you know.
BP: Yes. And do you have any other friends or family that also owned businesses themselves? And was your experience different at all from them and the challenges that you faced opening your own business during this time?
LI: My brother-in-law has a business in Italy that for almost couple of years it was closed. It was also the kind of business, it was like an entertaining business where he had a similar experience to mine. He opened up this place a couple of months before Covid hit in the sports industry. You know, like… So, that one was one of the worst business to do during Covid because all the events, they were done. And was very challenging for him as well. For us, even [unintelligible 00:32:28] his own construction company. But then it was a little bit different because construction was still something that was happening. And I know many, I have many clients that, not friends that before I just knew them that had businesses in the food industry as well in New York City, all over the country. They were really, really challenging for them as well.
BP: Absolutely. And, like, you know, so many changes happened during this time. Are there any changes in your life or in your work that you think you’ll be keeping now, like, even after the pandemic is over?
LI: I believe the flexible and remote, let’s say, working from home kind of a situation, it’s something new that the pandemic brought. And I really hoping and willing to continue this because it really, it showed us and provided to the companies that you can do the same amount of work or more sometimes. Not in a nine to five in-office situations. So, all for this, we’ll continue about that. I’m lucky enough that I have an understandable company that is still accepting this. I know it’s not the case for many of the companies. But this is something that I’m really trying to proceed and keep it. And my goal is really to focus on growing Alessio’s in a different kind of way. Maybe franchising the place. Maybe open a different location under my extended management. Maybe open a sister business, you know. [unintelligible 00:34:42] So, we don’t know. [Laughs]
BP: The possibilities are endless.
LI: Yes.
BP: Yes. And how has the pandemic changed your view about Hoboken, or because you discovered anything new about the city, about the community here during, you know, the last two years. And, you know, running your store here. Yeah. If you’d like to share on that.
LI: I got to know Hoboken much more. Because especially in this town, in the city, there is also a big support of other businesses. So, when times get tough, you know, you [unintelligible 00:35:31]. And like us, many of the business, they [unintelligible 00:35:34]. So, you created some type of legacy with them. I have many customer that they have businesses here. And become their customer. So, that what this city was unique in this way. One of my friend, he’s running the business of a candle store. Other restaurant and bar. Other things. We went through the same. So, we know what was it like, how is it. So, it’s like, we understand each other even without talking to each other about that. That’s something that we do. So, it’s something my family do.
BP: Yes. And do you have any predictions for the future of Hoboken, whether that’s, you know, in the food and service industry or the city in general? Do you have any predictions for the, sort of, post-pandemic world that we’re going to be in?
LI: For Hoboken in particular?
BP: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
LI: So, Hoboken is already called the Sixth Borough of New York. The officials, they are really doing a good job to have Hoboken be more exposed to the world. I believe it’s a tremendous opportunity to be even better than Brooklyn and Queens because there is amazing views, good quality of life. Yeah. It is most shady, but it’s very low crime. What can be done by their advance? Something that, host some activities that can bring more customers. Not more customer, more people. Not only residents, but visitors from all over New Jersey and New York. Something and now is suffering a little bit, but the issue, there is the opportunity for much more. And because the waterfront of Hoboken is beautiful. Good food. Good… It’s busy everything here.
BP: Yes. And, you know, years from now, you know, when, you know, your child is all grown up, I’m sure you’ll be telling stories to them about what it was like during this time during the pandemic. What would you tell them? What would you want future generations to know about what we’ve experienced over the last two and a half years?
LI: What we do is a bit of a project because it’s basically what the future generation should hear and learn because we don’t know. Maybe in 50 years from now something like that, it will happen again. And the testimony of what happened – and this is, I believe, is valid for everything. I remember, my grandfather talking about the Second World War, that he was a prisoner in Albania. You know, communicating your feeling, what happened, it’s a way to teach further generation that it will come, that will… If they know from somebody that experience that, it’s worth their time hear from the news. [Laughs]
BP: Absolutely. And then, is there anything else that you would like to mention, whether about Hoboken or the pandemic in general in relation to your personal experience, or your experience opening up a business in this really unprecedented global time?
LI: I think we covered almost everything.
BP: Okay.
LI: And like I said, I’m very thankful for the community that I was able to be part here in Hoboken because at the end of the day, it’s really what matters. And I do the same. I go somewhere what I feel like, you know, I’m part of that environment. Something many people teach to from big corporation business to small businesses. And being, for example, in the food industry, I will say there were many people that were going to Starbucks. Now, they [unintelligible 00:40:11]. So now, they created this, sort of, change of behavior toward the community.
BP: Excellent. So, that’s the end of the interview. Thank you so much, Luca, for participating. We really appreciate having your perspective being part of a local history here in Hoboken.
LI: Thank you for inviting me in this and be able to share my experience. Thank you.
BP: Yeah, absolutely.
[End of audio]
Interviewer
Bernadette Patino
Interviewee
Luca Infantino
Location
Hoboken Public Library, Hoboken, New Jersey
Citation
Hoboken Public Library, “Interview 11: Luca Infantino,” Hoboken Public Library's 2022 COVID-19 Oral History Project, accessed May 15, 2024, https://hobokenoralhistory2022.omeka.net/items/show/11.