Interview 12: Frances Nicotra
Dublin Core
Title
Interview 12: Frances Nicotra
Subject
COVID-19, COVID-19 pandemic, Hoboken, New Jersey
Description
An oral history with Frances Nicotra, attorney, regarding Hoboken's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as her personal experiences with it.
Creator
Hoboken Public Library
Publisher
Hoboken Public Library
Date
Recorded July 7, 2022
Format
Uploaded recording: .mp3
Preservation recording: .wav
Preservation recording: .wav
Language
English
Type
Oral history
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Original Format
Digital audio file
Duration
00:39:29
Transcription
Recording: This meeting is being recorded.
Q: So thank you for joining us today for this oral history interview. If you could please state your name, age, race, ethnicity, any other relevant information you want to just share about your background, and as well as today's date.
FN: As well as what?
Q: Today's date.
FN: As well as Stacy.
Q: What’s Stacy? Yeah.
S: Today's date.
FN: Oh, today's date is July 7, 2022. My name is Francis Nicotra, and I am from Hoboken, and I am age 56. My ethnicity background is Sicilian American, and pretty much predominantly, 98 percent I think according to Ancestry. So what else can I say? I'm a resident of Hudson County in Hoboken, and an attorney as well.
Q: Okay. So you already let us know a little bit about you. You are here in Hoboken. Do you work in Hoboken as well as live here?
FN: My office is in Jersey City, in the Heights. Yeah.
Q: And so how long have you been in this area?
FN: Since 1991. Since June 1991 in Hoboken.
Q: So a long time. You've seen a lot of probably changes over the years.
FN: I have.
Q: And where were you when the initial lock down was announced in March of 2020? And what do you remember from that day and moment?
FN: I was in Hoboken in my apartment. Actually, I was one of the last attorneys in court appearing in court. And I remember around the holidays that this COVID started becoming a thing to pay attention to around Christmas time, let's say. And definitely in around the New Year of 2020, by the time early February came around it became a lot more pronounced. And then even more so by the end of February, and then in March it was something that needed to be addressed by way of a lock down, and that's what happened. And I was in Hoboken when that happened.
Q: And so was your business, job impacted, you know, as a lawyer? How did that affect you?
FN: So what I did, I'm not afraid of technology, let's say, and I embraced the opportunity. I had to move everything from a paper full practice to a paperless practice, which I had always wanted to do anyway, but this was necessary, and I went into a remote practice like every other attorney had to do, and I learned a lot more about apps and I utilized those. They were my friends. And I was able to still conduct business. I believe that the courts never closed, and that within a week after the shutdown, we were back on the record holding cases.
Q: And so was there anything that helped you destress? Like deal with the stress during the early days of the pandemic?
FN: So I didn't feel the stress in the early days of the pandemic for the simple reason that I was taking my practice from a paper full practice to a paperless practice, as well as the state of New Jersey had to take their court operations from in person to online and online filings. So there was a lot to learn and a lot to do, and you just go through it as it's happening. Now at that time I was also the incoming President of the Hudson County Bar Association, so my presidency was January 2021 through the 2021 year. Yes. And I finished the presidency in or about the third week of January 2022. It's a one year term in movement you get in the chair. So there was still plenty of connections. It was just online. And there was still work that had to be done, and I was working.
Q: So you kind of didn't have time to be stressed because you kept so busy? You know?
FN: I would say. And I would say that really, stress was not one of the things. I did not have stress. I was just doing that next indicated thing. That thing you're moving towards anyway, because online filing did start to become a thing, we just had to move further into them and I do that for family matters and all sorts of private matters. So it was a learning process that really did not take long to learn. And what it did as a result was it streamlined my practice, really, to remote operations as well as online operations. So no stress there.
Q: And do you feel like your clients that you were working with, that they adjusted well to the technology too?
FN: Oh, yes. Absolutely. I think my clientele is maybe a little younger, perhaps. And they are well educated to technology and to be able to work technology. And there were even some people within Google, so those software engineers really – this was their jam, so to say. No. I simply didn't have those issues with my practice. People really adjusted. There were worries that people had with their quarantine issues and their work issues, for sure. There were all sorts of different concerns. We were going to live differently, right? For a little while at least. What was thought to be two weeks turned into two months turned into two years, and continuing, because there are things that not fully restored to what it was what I call BC, before COVID, and probably never will.
Q: Yeah. How did your life and job change as the pandemic continued?
FN: I learned to work a little smarter, a little more efficiently. And it's certainly far more efficient to work in remote operations. I always seem to work longer hours anyway, so I did work some longer hours. I do work some longer hours now. Well, maybe more hours now than I did before, BC. Before COVID. But I feel that the change, as far as the practice and court, is far more for the better. And the market conditions and the way the market operates, the market will determine how this is going to continue going. So if business is really moving, their operations more remote, the legal industry is going to have to adjust. As much as they don't want to, it is coming.
Q: Now with your law practice working from home, do you have any other family members or roommates also living with you, and how was that experience?
FN: I did. I had some quaran-teammates, and we had a fantastic time. I was very lucky. I was very fortunate to have friends. My family I stayed in contact with of course. And as things got better in the first summer, I was able to see my family and some other friends. Just like everybody else, still the not the way we were BC, but certainly I was able to see them when summer came. So this happened in March. Really, by June, we were able to visit. And I still had to work, and I did work a lot. I really did work a lot. What else did we do? Well, together, my friends that stayed with me are in theater and in circus aerials, and I was involved with this circus training facility as an aerialist as well, and we were able to train together. But also what we did was we created a YouTube channel, and we would put on little plays just like kids do, right? What do kids do? They put on plays for the adults, right? So we put on these little plays, and we fashioned some for five or six minutes, seven minutes. And we had a great time doing that. We launched a little YouTube channel, and we did some of that that incorporated circus and law, and lighthearted comedy. So we were able to channel our energies into this. And the two people I stayed with, both of them were experienced circus performers and Broadway. One was also on Broadway, but one was from Cirque du Soleil. So the amount of artistic training and the outlet with the channel, those artistic energies was present, and I was very fortunate for that. That was probably why the stress was less, because there was a way to have a community and maintain that sense of community as well as maintain the artistic creativity while I was still working.
Q: And I imagine for them it must have been hard with the pandemic, because they're used to performing in front of crowds and that kind of shut that all down for them.
FN: Yes. That did. At the same time, they were also embracing the time off a little bit. Yes. A little bit. It was something to really embrace at that time. So there was this air of perhaps less stress. Now, when we would go shopping, that was kind of funny, because at that time we were all with our masks, and we had this protocol spraying the shoes down with Lysol, taking them off on the way into the front door, changing the clothes as soon as you got in, the grocery bags, everything wiped down, but not only that, everything wiped down before going into those grocery bags. They didn't even hit the conveyor belts. And then when we came home, you know, when you're washing your eggs and avocados, it was a little much, right? Yeah.
Q: Did you have any like holidays you celebrated like via Zoom or anything? Like how did you handle stuff like that?
FN: We watched shows actually. We did. There were, so to speak, remote live performances going on within the artistic community, and there were shows. There were original shows to see, and a welcoming in. So we were tuned into that as well. And our Bar Association meetings were going by remote as well. So there were celebrations. I was sworn in by way of Zoom, and it was so well attended in that Zoom room, and it was so special to me. It was so special, because it got everybody together on one screen, and there were so many of my family and friends there that ordinarily would not have been able to see that swearing in because they would have had to go in person. So I had people from all over tuning in. So again, there's a silver lining in this.
Q: I feel like you definitely had a very positive attitude through the pandemic it seems like. So what are other things that occurred you think that those outside of your own experience might not realize about the pandemic?
FN: Can you say that again?
Q: What are some things that you experienced here in Hoboken as a lawyer, you know, you're being connected to the group for the theater, things that you think that others might not realize from their own experiences?
FN: Well, that's a really hard question to answer, because I know everybody had their own journey, right? And everybody had a tough time. I cannot imagine what people, healthcare workers to start with, went through, and then people that weren't able to work at all, and that had a suffering like that. What I noticed was a rise in domestic violence incidents, filing of restraining orders, as well as violations of those restraining orders. And there were a lot of those.
What else happened? Well, there's a significant shortage of judges in the state of New Jersey. I believe other states are having a problem as well. It might not just be unique to the state of New Jersey. But in the state of New Jersey, there's a significant shortage of judges. And the bench in Hudson County is down almost ten. I think there were some that were appointed, so we might now be down eight judges, which is a significant loss with no appointments in sight that I'm aware of. No new appointments in sight that I'm aware of. Except for maybe one. Maybe we might be down seven soon. So those are things that people might not be aware of. Now you hear my e-mail going off. I should have turned that off. Those are the things that I did experience, is that there is now a backlog in cases, and that's as a result of a shortage of judges. Judges retiring, and no new appointments. So that's something I noticed that others might not.
Q: Now, the domestic violence, and I don't know. This might not be something that you would be able to speak to how we could solve, but is there anything that you could say if something like this happens again, something you think that we societally could do to maybe prevent that from happening, you know, preventing that type of stuff from falling through the cracks?
FN: Well, yes. We are all in need, everybody is in need of mental health services. I believe that. And everybody could benefit by someone that they check in with. And I still don't understand to this day in the year 2022 how some people are still resistant to the idea of getting professional help. You wouldn't go to a hospital and start administering your own anesthesia, right? And do your own surgery at the same time. If you're not a mechanic, you wouldn't pop open the hood of your car and start changing spark plugs let's say if you didn't know what you were doing. You would get the help of a professional, someone that's trained, a coach, something, someone that's really trained. And there's been a shortage of mental health, but also a resistance to checking in. And I think that we can benefit greatly from that. Also, institutions are changing just because we are in the year of 2022, right? We've been rocked with having to face the idea of a lack of diversity in our institutions. We're all navigating our way through this and trying to understand what that means. And it's more than just, well, if you walk into a room and everybody looks the same, you're in the wrong room. Get out. It's one thing to say that and say, “Yeah, I know what that means.” But it's really another thing to understand that not always are you in a physical room with everybody that looks the same, but you're within organizations, and there's a resistance. There's a great resistance to change. Humans have a great resistance to change, right? A lot of people don't embrace it. And when there's this want and this desire for things to change, and for more diversity and inclusion initiatives, there's going to be some resistance to that. And you get to see that. Sometimes it's subtle and very passive aggressive, right? So I would say that that even requires experienced professionals and a lot of talk, group type of therapies, let's say, to get through that, and work through that together as a community in whatever communities you belong to. But that is what's really needed. I believe that's what's really needed most. Mental health and also the embracing of diversity and inclusion initiatives, because if you don't do it, okay. But you're going to get left behind. And when you get left behind, it upsets people. And when it upsets people, you don't know. It leads to bad things happening, right? Anger and all of that. And we're seeing this. We're seeing this unfold everyday, and in the news, and in every organization. I'm sorry. Even in communities and in counties that are the most diverse. Right even in New York City. Right even here in Hudson County. It's just there. And a lot of people, especially people who are used to it being a certain way, and the cars running a certain way can't understand why does it have to change? They'll understand the idea of the importance of getting mental health work and the importance of diversity, but when it comes down to acting on it, that doesn't happen. Yeah. So those are some of the things that in the future moving forward need to be addressed.
Q: And do you feel like your view of yourself and what you chose to value on changed because of the pandemic?
FN: Most definitely. Very eye-opening. Very eye-opening. Very much so.
Q: And so was your job impacted at all, or your life by supply chain issues?
FN: Well, I believe that everybody might have had that impact. The cost of goods have risen, right? Let's say I needed brakes on my car, it cost three times the amount of money now as it did before COVID. Gasoline is up, but that's not a supply chain issue. But I did notice there's certain things that it's tougher to get, takes longer to get. Certain things like even technology. Earphones for the computer. Sometimes those are in short supply. I had that issue.
Q: And so have you gone back to physically being in the workplace, or are you still mostly working remotely?
FN: Mostly working remotely, but I have gone back. I have. But I still stay mostly remotely. Why? Because the clientele wants to work in this way too. So again, the market is really going to have its say. The marketplace will have its say. And I have far greater success with remote meetings, with my clients. Private remote meetings. So there's no timeliness issues, and it's easier access, and there's even more privacy I feel. So that's how I've been effected.
Q: Do you have friends or family in other states or countries? And did they express like different experiences from yours here in Hoboken?
FN: Yes. I mean, I have family in different states. I have distant family in different countries. You know, it is a regional thing, I have to say. I mean, but the same things were going on, but their perspectives about them, and the ideas about them can be diverse based on where you live. Yes. Absolutely. It can turn political, and that's difficult because we're all experiencing the same issues. It's not political.
Q: Do you think there was anything about being in Hoboken specifically that made your pandemic experiences unique?
FN: You cannot go out as much, because there are more people, and it's more crowded. And that's what made it very unique. But hey, on the other side of things, there's more restaurants, so you had the opportunity to get out more. But it's really, very tough when there's more people and you're in a city, because the possibility of infection is far greater when there's more people.
Q: Have you made any changes, you know, other than just the working home that happened because of the pandemic that you think you'll keep now?
FN: I think everything. Everything that I've done post pandemic I'm going to keep. There's nothing whatsoever that I would be looking forward to. This concept of going back, the way it lands on my ear is going backwards. I don't go (crosstalk 00:32:18). Only forward.
Q: This is an opportunity you feel like in society, like, to take a step forward and to keep going forward than—
FN: Absolutely.
Q: And has the pandemic changed anything about the way you view Hoboken?
FN: Not whatsoever. It has always been this great tight knit community with a lot of wonderful residents, a great city to be in. A really great city to be in, to walk around in, and to go to restaurants and stores. It's just a really great place with great people.
Q: And what changes do you think that Hoboken has had specifically since the pandemic?
FN: More streeteries, which I love those streeteries. It has this European flair. Yes, we lost parking, but hopefully we won't need as much parking.
Q: So do you want to explain streeteries in case in the future, you know, it isn't a term that's used anymore?
FN: Yes. Streeteries are eateries, but they call them streeteries because they were moved out onto the street to accommodate open air eating, and it was being done even in the winter. And hopefully there would be heaters. Not all places had them, but those that did have heaters you could actually eat outside in the winter, and it's really wonderful. And I like it. And it gives the business an opportunity to accommodate more people as well and to thrive. And it's so much fun with the lights. It's very enchanting. I have to say that's my favorite thing, even though we lose parking. But like I said, eventually we really won't need as much. There will be better travel, and I think a lot of people won't even need their cars going forward in the future.
Q: Do you have any other predictions you see for the future of Hoboken?
FN: Yeah. That's what I mean is more public transport that will really minimize the need for driving is what I see. What else do I see? That is mostly what I see. Yeah.
Q: Anything else you'd like to mention about Hoboken related to the pandemic or your personal experiences?
FN: The phrase or the motto still holds. “Hoboken has it.” And that was true before 2020, and it's true in 2022.
Q: And anything else pandemic related you'd want future generations of Hobokenites to know about?
FN: What would I want them to know about? I would just want them to have some compassion for their fellow human, fellow person, and to realize that we're all in this together. A little bit of a different journey for everybody, but no one is better than anyone else. And we benefit greatly by having all different types of people come together to work together, no matter what color, shape and size that you are, and gender. The more inclusive we are, the more we bring different people to the table, the better we thrive, the better off we are for it.
Q: And just one last question. For somebody in the future, they might have to deal with something like this again, you know, 100 years from now, what would your biggest recommendation be to them to how they get through it?
FN: To maintain a positive attitude, because there is always something to be grateful for. Now I know that there was a lot of suffering during the pandemic. I know that. I know that there was a tremendous loss of life, and that was absolutely awful. And that's not only with illness and with the pandemic as we know to be COVID-19, but currently we are dealing with gun violence, and we are having a tremendous loss of life there by the year. And it's becoming more and more of just a common thing. And so I would recommend to really have some compassion that requires people to have some empathy and say, “Gee, I wonder what that's like. That person is going through this. I wonder what that must feel like.” And to think about what your fellow person, your fellow human being is going through, and to just be kind. Not just nice. Kind. To be kind. To be kind to yourself as well. Self-care. And that is mental health awareness as well, because that is part of self-care, and being kind to yourself. So that is very important. And to stay in communication and connected. Just because you might be in one place alone for an extended amount of time, it doesn't mean that you still need to be alone, because there's many ways to enjoy a connection, and it can be fun. And there's a lot of things that we can do these days, at least in 2022 or 2020 that we were able to do to maintain those connections.
Q: Okay. Great. Thank you so much for having us be able to record you. I think you had so many interesting things to share with the community now and in the future. So thank you very much.
FN: Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me to this discussion. I really greatly appreciate it.
Q: So thank you for joining us today for this oral history interview. If you could please state your name, age, race, ethnicity, any other relevant information you want to just share about your background, and as well as today's date.
FN: As well as what?
Q: Today's date.
FN: As well as Stacy.
Q: What’s Stacy? Yeah.
S: Today's date.
FN: Oh, today's date is July 7, 2022. My name is Francis Nicotra, and I am from Hoboken, and I am age 56. My ethnicity background is Sicilian American, and pretty much predominantly, 98 percent I think according to Ancestry. So what else can I say? I'm a resident of Hudson County in Hoboken, and an attorney as well.
Q: Okay. So you already let us know a little bit about you. You are here in Hoboken. Do you work in Hoboken as well as live here?
FN: My office is in Jersey City, in the Heights. Yeah.
Q: And so how long have you been in this area?
FN: Since 1991. Since June 1991 in Hoboken.
Q: So a long time. You've seen a lot of probably changes over the years.
FN: I have.
Q: And where were you when the initial lock down was announced in March of 2020? And what do you remember from that day and moment?
FN: I was in Hoboken in my apartment. Actually, I was one of the last attorneys in court appearing in court. And I remember around the holidays that this COVID started becoming a thing to pay attention to around Christmas time, let's say. And definitely in around the New Year of 2020, by the time early February came around it became a lot more pronounced. And then even more so by the end of February, and then in March it was something that needed to be addressed by way of a lock down, and that's what happened. And I was in Hoboken when that happened.
Q: And so was your business, job impacted, you know, as a lawyer? How did that affect you?
FN: So what I did, I'm not afraid of technology, let's say, and I embraced the opportunity. I had to move everything from a paper full practice to a paperless practice, which I had always wanted to do anyway, but this was necessary, and I went into a remote practice like every other attorney had to do, and I learned a lot more about apps and I utilized those. They were my friends. And I was able to still conduct business. I believe that the courts never closed, and that within a week after the shutdown, we were back on the record holding cases.
Q: And so was there anything that helped you destress? Like deal with the stress during the early days of the pandemic?
FN: So I didn't feel the stress in the early days of the pandemic for the simple reason that I was taking my practice from a paper full practice to a paperless practice, as well as the state of New Jersey had to take their court operations from in person to online and online filings. So there was a lot to learn and a lot to do, and you just go through it as it's happening. Now at that time I was also the incoming President of the Hudson County Bar Association, so my presidency was January 2021 through the 2021 year. Yes. And I finished the presidency in or about the third week of January 2022. It's a one year term in movement you get in the chair. So there was still plenty of connections. It was just online. And there was still work that had to be done, and I was working.
Q: So you kind of didn't have time to be stressed because you kept so busy? You know?
FN: I would say. And I would say that really, stress was not one of the things. I did not have stress. I was just doing that next indicated thing. That thing you're moving towards anyway, because online filing did start to become a thing, we just had to move further into them and I do that for family matters and all sorts of private matters. So it was a learning process that really did not take long to learn. And what it did as a result was it streamlined my practice, really, to remote operations as well as online operations. So no stress there.
Q: And do you feel like your clients that you were working with, that they adjusted well to the technology too?
FN: Oh, yes. Absolutely. I think my clientele is maybe a little younger, perhaps. And they are well educated to technology and to be able to work technology. And there were even some people within Google, so those software engineers really – this was their jam, so to say. No. I simply didn't have those issues with my practice. People really adjusted. There were worries that people had with their quarantine issues and their work issues, for sure. There were all sorts of different concerns. We were going to live differently, right? For a little while at least. What was thought to be two weeks turned into two months turned into two years, and continuing, because there are things that not fully restored to what it was what I call BC, before COVID, and probably never will.
Q: Yeah. How did your life and job change as the pandemic continued?
FN: I learned to work a little smarter, a little more efficiently. And it's certainly far more efficient to work in remote operations. I always seem to work longer hours anyway, so I did work some longer hours. I do work some longer hours now. Well, maybe more hours now than I did before, BC. Before COVID. But I feel that the change, as far as the practice and court, is far more for the better. And the market conditions and the way the market operates, the market will determine how this is going to continue going. So if business is really moving, their operations more remote, the legal industry is going to have to adjust. As much as they don't want to, it is coming.
Q: Now with your law practice working from home, do you have any other family members or roommates also living with you, and how was that experience?
FN: I did. I had some quaran-teammates, and we had a fantastic time. I was very lucky. I was very fortunate to have friends. My family I stayed in contact with of course. And as things got better in the first summer, I was able to see my family and some other friends. Just like everybody else, still the not the way we were BC, but certainly I was able to see them when summer came. So this happened in March. Really, by June, we were able to visit. And I still had to work, and I did work a lot. I really did work a lot. What else did we do? Well, together, my friends that stayed with me are in theater and in circus aerials, and I was involved with this circus training facility as an aerialist as well, and we were able to train together. But also what we did was we created a YouTube channel, and we would put on little plays just like kids do, right? What do kids do? They put on plays for the adults, right? So we put on these little plays, and we fashioned some for five or six minutes, seven minutes. And we had a great time doing that. We launched a little YouTube channel, and we did some of that that incorporated circus and law, and lighthearted comedy. So we were able to channel our energies into this. And the two people I stayed with, both of them were experienced circus performers and Broadway. One was also on Broadway, but one was from Cirque du Soleil. So the amount of artistic training and the outlet with the channel, those artistic energies was present, and I was very fortunate for that. That was probably why the stress was less, because there was a way to have a community and maintain that sense of community as well as maintain the artistic creativity while I was still working.
Q: And I imagine for them it must have been hard with the pandemic, because they're used to performing in front of crowds and that kind of shut that all down for them.
FN: Yes. That did. At the same time, they were also embracing the time off a little bit. Yes. A little bit. It was something to really embrace at that time. So there was this air of perhaps less stress. Now, when we would go shopping, that was kind of funny, because at that time we were all with our masks, and we had this protocol spraying the shoes down with Lysol, taking them off on the way into the front door, changing the clothes as soon as you got in, the grocery bags, everything wiped down, but not only that, everything wiped down before going into those grocery bags. They didn't even hit the conveyor belts. And then when we came home, you know, when you're washing your eggs and avocados, it was a little much, right? Yeah.
Q: Did you have any like holidays you celebrated like via Zoom or anything? Like how did you handle stuff like that?
FN: We watched shows actually. We did. There were, so to speak, remote live performances going on within the artistic community, and there were shows. There were original shows to see, and a welcoming in. So we were tuned into that as well. And our Bar Association meetings were going by remote as well. So there were celebrations. I was sworn in by way of Zoom, and it was so well attended in that Zoom room, and it was so special to me. It was so special, because it got everybody together on one screen, and there were so many of my family and friends there that ordinarily would not have been able to see that swearing in because they would have had to go in person. So I had people from all over tuning in. So again, there's a silver lining in this.
Q: I feel like you definitely had a very positive attitude through the pandemic it seems like. So what are other things that occurred you think that those outside of your own experience might not realize about the pandemic?
FN: Can you say that again?
Q: What are some things that you experienced here in Hoboken as a lawyer, you know, you're being connected to the group for the theater, things that you think that others might not realize from their own experiences?
FN: Well, that's a really hard question to answer, because I know everybody had their own journey, right? And everybody had a tough time. I cannot imagine what people, healthcare workers to start with, went through, and then people that weren't able to work at all, and that had a suffering like that. What I noticed was a rise in domestic violence incidents, filing of restraining orders, as well as violations of those restraining orders. And there were a lot of those.
What else happened? Well, there's a significant shortage of judges in the state of New Jersey. I believe other states are having a problem as well. It might not just be unique to the state of New Jersey. But in the state of New Jersey, there's a significant shortage of judges. And the bench in Hudson County is down almost ten. I think there were some that were appointed, so we might now be down eight judges, which is a significant loss with no appointments in sight that I'm aware of. No new appointments in sight that I'm aware of. Except for maybe one. Maybe we might be down seven soon. So those are things that people might not be aware of. Now you hear my e-mail going off. I should have turned that off. Those are the things that I did experience, is that there is now a backlog in cases, and that's as a result of a shortage of judges. Judges retiring, and no new appointments. So that's something I noticed that others might not.
Q: Now, the domestic violence, and I don't know. This might not be something that you would be able to speak to how we could solve, but is there anything that you could say if something like this happens again, something you think that we societally could do to maybe prevent that from happening, you know, preventing that type of stuff from falling through the cracks?
FN: Well, yes. We are all in need, everybody is in need of mental health services. I believe that. And everybody could benefit by someone that they check in with. And I still don't understand to this day in the year 2022 how some people are still resistant to the idea of getting professional help. You wouldn't go to a hospital and start administering your own anesthesia, right? And do your own surgery at the same time. If you're not a mechanic, you wouldn't pop open the hood of your car and start changing spark plugs let's say if you didn't know what you were doing. You would get the help of a professional, someone that's trained, a coach, something, someone that's really trained. And there's been a shortage of mental health, but also a resistance to checking in. And I think that we can benefit greatly from that. Also, institutions are changing just because we are in the year of 2022, right? We've been rocked with having to face the idea of a lack of diversity in our institutions. We're all navigating our way through this and trying to understand what that means. And it's more than just, well, if you walk into a room and everybody looks the same, you're in the wrong room. Get out. It's one thing to say that and say, “Yeah, I know what that means.” But it's really another thing to understand that not always are you in a physical room with everybody that looks the same, but you're within organizations, and there's a resistance. There's a great resistance to change. Humans have a great resistance to change, right? A lot of people don't embrace it. And when there's this want and this desire for things to change, and for more diversity and inclusion initiatives, there's going to be some resistance to that. And you get to see that. Sometimes it's subtle and very passive aggressive, right? So I would say that that even requires experienced professionals and a lot of talk, group type of therapies, let's say, to get through that, and work through that together as a community in whatever communities you belong to. But that is what's really needed. I believe that's what's really needed most. Mental health and also the embracing of diversity and inclusion initiatives, because if you don't do it, okay. But you're going to get left behind. And when you get left behind, it upsets people. And when it upsets people, you don't know. It leads to bad things happening, right? Anger and all of that. And we're seeing this. We're seeing this unfold everyday, and in the news, and in every organization. I'm sorry. Even in communities and in counties that are the most diverse. Right even in New York City. Right even here in Hudson County. It's just there. And a lot of people, especially people who are used to it being a certain way, and the cars running a certain way can't understand why does it have to change? They'll understand the idea of the importance of getting mental health work and the importance of diversity, but when it comes down to acting on it, that doesn't happen. Yeah. So those are some of the things that in the future moving forward need to be addressed.
Q: And do you feel like your view of yourself and what you chose to value on changed because of the pandemic?
FN: Most definitely. Very eye-opening. Very eye-opening. Very much so.
Q: And so was your job impacted at all, or your life by supply chain issues?
FN: Well, I believe that everybody might have had that impact. The cost of goods have risen, right? Let's say I needed brakes on my car, it cost three times the amount of money now as it did before COVID. Gasoline is up, but that's not a supply chain issue. But I did notice there's certain things that it's tougher to get, takes longer to get. Certain things like even technology. Earphones for the computer. Sometimes those are in short supply. I had that issue.
Q: And so have you gone back to physically being in the workplace, or are you still mostly working remotely?
FN: Mostly working remotely, but I have gone back. I have. But I still stay mostly remotely. Why? Because the clientele wants to work in this way too. So again, the market is really going to have its say. The marketplace will have its say. And I have far greater success with remote meetings, with my clients. Private remote meetings. So there's no timeliness issues, and it's easier access, and there's even more privacy I feel. So that's how I've been effected.
Q: Do you have friends or family in other states or countries? And did they express like different experiences from yours here in Hoboken?
FN: Yes. I mean, I have family in different states. I have distant family in different countries. You know, it is a regional thing, I have to say. I mean, but the same things were going on, but their perspectives about them, and the ideas about them can be diverse based on where you live. Yes. Absolutely. It can turn political, and that's difficult because we're all experiencing the same issues. It's not political.
Q: Do you think there was anything about being in Hoboken specifically that made your pandemic experiences unique?
FN: You cannot go out as much, because there are more people, and it's more crowded. And that's what made it very unique. But hey, on the other side of things, there's more restaurants, so you had the opportunity to get out more. But it's really, very tough when there's more people and you're in a city, because the possibility of infection is far greater when there's more people.
Q: Have you made any changes, you know, other than just the working home that happened because of the pandemic that you think you'll keep now?
FN: I think everything. Everything that I've done post pandemic I'm going to keep. There's nothing whatsoever that I would be looking forward to. This concept of going back, the way it lands on my ear is going backwards. I don't go (crosstalk 00:32:18). Only forward.
Q: This is an opportunity you feel like in society, like, to take a step forward and to keep going forward than—
FN: Absolutely.
Q: And has the pandemic changed anything about the way you view Hoboken?
FN: Not whatsoever. It has always been this great tight knit community with a lot of wonderful residents, a great city to be in. A really great city to be in, to walk around in, and to go to restaurants and stores. It's just a really great place with great people.
Q: And what changes do you think that Hoboken has had specifically since the pandemic?
FN: More streeteries, which I love those streeteries. It has this European flair. Yes, we lost parking, but hopefully we won't need as much parking.
Q: So do you want to explain streeteries in case in the future, you know, it isn't a term that's used anymore?
FN: Yes. Streeteries are eateries, but they call them streeteries because they were moved out onto the street to accommodate open air eating, and it was being done even in the winter. And hopefully there would be heaters. Not all places had them, but those that did have heaters you could actually eat outside in the winter, and it's really wonderful. And I like it. And it gives the business an opportunity to accommodate more people as well and to thrive. And it's so much fun with the lights. It's very enchanting. I have to say that's my favorite thing, even though we lose parking. But like I said, eventually we really won't need as much. There will be better travel, and I think a lot of people won't even need their cars going forward in the future.
Q: Do you have any other predictions you see for the future of Hoboken?
FN: Yeah. That's what I mean is more public transport that will really minimize the need for driving is what I see. What else do I see? That is mostly what I see. Yeah.
Q: Anything else you'd like to mention about Hoboken related to the pandemic or your personal experiences?
FN: The phrase or the motto still holds. “Hoboken has it.” And that was true before 2020, and it's true in 2022.
Q: And anything else pandemic related you'd want future generations of Hobokenites to know about?
FN: What would I want them to know about? I would just want them to have some compassion for their fellow human, fellow person, and to realize that we're all in this together. A little bit of a different journey for everybody, but no one is better than anyone else. And we benefit greatly by having all different types of people come together to work together, no matter what color, shape and size that you are, and gender. The more inclusive we are, the more we bring different people to the table, the better we thrive, the better off we are for it.
Q: And just one last question. For somebody in the future, they might have to deal with something like this again, you know, 100 years from now, what would your biggest recommendation be to them to how they get through it?
FN: To maintain a positive attitude, because there is always something to be grateful for. Now I know that there was a lot of suffering during the pandemic. I know that. I know that there was a tremendous loss of life, and that was absolutely awful. And that's not only with illness and with the pandemic as we know to be COVID-19, but currently we are dealing with gun violence, and we are having a tremendous loss of life there by the year. And it's becoming more and more of just a common thing. And so I would recommend to really have some compassion that requires people to have some empathy and say, “Gee, I wonder what that's like. That person is going through this. I wonder what that must feel like.” And to think about what your fellow person, your fellow human being is going through, and to just be kind. Not just nice. Kind. To be kind. To be kind to yourself as well. Self-care. And that is mental health awareness as well, because that is part of self-care, and being kind to yourself. So that is very important. And to stay in communication and connected. Just because you might be in one place alone for an extended amount of time, it doesn't mean that you still need to be alone, because there's many ways to enjoy a connection, and it can be fun. And there's a lot of things that we can do these days, at least in 2022 or 2020 that we were able to do to maintain those connections.
Q: Okay. Great. Thank you so much for having us be able to record you. I think you had so many interesting things to share with the community now and in the future. So thank you very much.
FN: Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me to this discussion. I really greatly appreciate it.
Interviewer
Aimee Harris
Interviewee
Frances Nicotra
Location
Zoom [interviewer calling in from Hoboken Public Library, Hoboken, New Jersey]
Citation
Hoboken Public Library, “Interview 12: Frances Nicotra,” Hoboken Public Library's 2022 COVID-19 Oral History Project, accessed May 15, 2024, https://hobokenoralhistory2022.omeka.net/items/show/12.